FortiGate-VM Alternatives (September 2025)

FortiGate-VM offers the same security and networking services from FortiOS 7.0 and is available for public cloud, private cloud, and Telco Cloud (VNFs).

4.7/5

375+ reviews

Reviewed on:

G2
Gartner
1.
Next Generation Firewall (NGFW) - See Top Products
https://www.fortine
.com/products/next-generation-firewall/

Learn how Fortinet next-generation firewall (NGFW) products can provide high-performance & consolidated security. Get end-to-end network protection.

2.
Next-Generation Firewall (NGFW) Software & Appliances
https://www.forcepoin
.com/product/ngfw-next-generation-firewall/

Experience unrivaled security with Forcepoint Next Generation Firewall (NGFW) Appliances. Stay ahead of cyber threats and secure your network with confidence.

3.
Web Application Firewall (WAF) & API Protection | Fortinet
https://www.fortine
.com/products/web-application-firewall/fortiweb/

FortiWeb web application firewall provides advanced capabilities to defend web applications and APIs from known and zero-day threats.

4.
VM-Series Virtual Next-Generation Firewall - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/network-security/vm-series-virtual-next-generation-firewall/

Best-in-class VM-Series Virtual Firewalls flexibly scale to secure public clouds, private clouds, enterprise virtual branches and more

5.
Next-Generation Firewalls - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/network-security/next-generation-firewall/

Today’s Next-Generation Firewalls provide advanced protection for physical or virtual public and private cloud networks. Learn about our ML-Powered NGFW.

6.
What is Secure SD-WAN (Software-Defined Wide Area Network)? | Fortinet
https://www.fortine
.com/products/sd-wan/

Learn what Secure SD-WAN is and how it combines networking with uncompromised security! A software-defined WAN solution offers superior connectivity for distributed branches.

7.
Fortinet FortiGate: IPS | AVFirewalls.com
https://www.avfirewall
.com/IPS.asp/

Secure Web Gateway (SWG) solutions use web filtering to enforce company Internet access policies. They also filter unwanted software, especially malware, from user-initiated Internet connections.

8.
Next-Generation Firewall | Juniper Networks US
https://www.junipe
.net/us/en/solutions/next-gen-firewall.html/

Discover the most effective NGFW in the industry, reliably safeguarding users, applications, and devices, delivered on-premises, in the cloud, or as a service.

9.
FortiOS-Carrier Extending Operating System License for Mobile Carriers
https://www.fortine
.com/products/fortigate/fortios-carrier/

Mobile carriers with evolved packet cores infrastructures aggregating radio access networks and hot spots will benefit from the firewall functionalities of FortiOS-Carrier.

10.
Fortinet FortiProxy
https://www.fortine
.com/products/secure-web-gateway/fortiproxy/

Enterprise-class protection against internet-borne threats and Advanced Web Content Caching with FortiProxy

11.
Next Generation Firewall | Edge Threat Management – Arista
https://edge.arist
.com/ng-firewall/

Arista NG Firewall simplifies network security with a single, modular, software platform designed to fit the evolving needs of your organization.

12.
Versa Secure SD-WAN | Versa Networks
https://versa-network
.com/products/sd-wan/

Versa SecureSD-WAN Empowering the future of WAN Edge connectivity with agility, security, and scale GET A DEMO FREE TRIAL Overview Features Plans Resources A comprehensive networking solution Versa Secure SD-WAN is a comprehensive networking solution that provides end-to-end visibility, control, and security for your enterprise's digital transformation. It integrates software-defined networking (SDN) and advanced security

13.
Network Analytics for Large & Complex Networks | FortiAnalyzer
https://www.fortine
.com/products/management/fortianalyzer/

FortiAnalyzer delivers high-performance big-data network analytics for large & complex networks and provides better detection & response against cyber risks.

14.
Remote Browser Isolation (RBI) | FortiIsolator
https://www.fortine
.com/products/fortiisolator/

Fortinet's Browser Isolation (RBI) protects organizations against advanced web threats. Access the web securely with Remote Browser Isolation Solution -- FortiIsolator

15.
Cloud NGFW for AWS - Network Security - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/network-security/cloud-ngfw/

Cloud NGFW combines best-in-class network security with cloud native ease of use and delivers ML-Powered NGFW protection as a managed cloud native service on AWS.

16.
Next Generation Firewalls (NGFW) | Network Firewalls | Hillstone Networks
https://www.hillstonene
.com/products/network-edge-protection/ngfw/

Hillstone Networks’ future-ready Next-Generation Firewall features advanced threat detection and prevention, and smart automated policy operation.

17.
Sophos Firewall: Consolidate Your Security
https://www.sopho
.com/en-us/products/next-gen-firewall/

Sophos Next-Gen Firewall. Integration with Sophos MDR and Sophos XDR, Comprehensive SD-WAN Capabilities, Support for SSE/SASE Portfolio, Cloud Management and Built in ZTNA.

18.
Cloud-Based Management-FortiPortal
https://www.fortine
.com/products/management/fortiportal/

Managed Service Providers: Get white-labeled MSSP-hosted security, wireless management, and analytics.

19.
F5 Distributed Cloud WAF | F5
https://www.f
.com/products/distributed-cloud-services/distributed-cloud-waf/

Learn how F5 Distributed Cloud WAF combines F5’s industry leading web application firewall in an easy-to-use SaaS format.

20.
What is SASE? | Secure Access Service Edge | VMware
https://www.vmwar
.com/products/software-defined-edge/secure-access-service-edge-sase/

SASE is the convergence of cloud networking and cloud security for simplicity, scalability, flexibility, and pervasive security. Learn more.

21.
Barracuda CloudGen Firewall | Barracuda Campus
https://campus.barracud
.com/product/cloudgenfirewall/

In the cloud era, network firewalls must do more than secure your network. They must also ensure you have uninterrupted network availability and robust access to cloud-hosted applications.Barracuda CloudGen Firewall is a family of hardware, virtual, and cloud-based appliances that protect and enhance your dispersed network infrastructure. They deliver advanced security by tightly integrating a comprehensive set of Cloud-Generation firewall technologies, including Layer 7 application profiling, intrusion prevention, web filtering, malware and advanced threat protection, antispam protection, and network access…

22.
Network Security Products & Solutions | Juniper Networks US
https://www.junipe
.net/us/en/security.html/

Safeguard your users and applications with Juniper Connected Security that extends security to every point of connection, from client to cloud, across the network.

23.
Top Network Management Software System & Operation Tool | FortiManager
https://www.fortine
.com/products/management/fortimanager/

Fortinet's Network Management Software System offers a security strategy to provide protection against breaches. See how FortiManager Network Management Tool can help automate the workflow.

24.
Zscaler Internet Access for Secure Internet & SaaS Access
https://www.zscale
.com/products-and-solutions/zscaler-internet-access/

Experience Zscaler Internet Access (ZIA) - the ultimate solution for secure internet and SaaS access with AI-powered protection for all users and devices.

26.
Appgate | Leading Zero Trust Network Access, Fraud Solutions and…
https://www.appgat
.com/

Appgate offers innovative cybersecurity solutions and advisory services including leading Zero Trust Network Access (ZTNA), fraud prevention tools and…

27.
FortiDDoS – DDoS Protection Solution
https://www.fortine
.com/products/ddos/fortiddos/

DDoS attacks are ever-evolving. FortiDDoS offers an advanced DDoS Protection Solution for enterprise data centers against known and zero-day attacks with low latency.

28.
Premier Network Access Control (NAC) Solutions & Security | Fortinet
https://www.fortine
.com/products/network-access-control/

Network access control (NAC) is a security solution that provides users with enhanced visibility into the Internet of Things (IoT). ✓ Explore Fortinet's top NAC solutions!

29.
Cato Networks: World’s Leading Single-Vendor SASE Platform
https://www.catonetwork
.com/

Cato SASE Cloud converges SD-WAN, security, global backbone, and remote access into a global cloud-native service. WE ARE SASE™

30.
Secure Internet Gateway | Avast Business
https://www.avas
.com/en-us/business/cloudcare/secure-internet-gateway/

Secure Internet Gateway (SIG) provides next generation, cloud-based firewall protection for businesses, MSPs, and MSSPs.

31.
FortiGuard AI-powered Security Services
https://www.fortine
.com/solutions/enterprise-midsize-business/security-as-a-service/fortiguard-subscriptions/

FortiGuard AI-powered Security Services counter threats in real-time with AI-powered, coordinated protection across your entire attack surface.

32.
BIG-IP Advanced Firewall Manager | F5
https://www.f
.com/products/big-ip-services/advanced-firewall-manager/

Stop even the most massive and complex DDoS attacks with BIG-IP Advanced Firewall Manager: advanced data center protection against layer 3–4 threats.

33.
Azure Firewall – Cloud Network Security Solutions | Microsoft Azure
https://azure.microsof
.com/en-us/products/azure-firewall/

Protect, monitor, and report on your Azure Virtual Network resources using Azure Firewall, a cloud-native network security and analytics solution.

34.
Enhancing Modern App Security: Introducing F5 Distributed Cloud App Infrastructure Protection | F5 Blog
https://www.f
.com/company/blog/distributed-cloud-app-infrastructure-protection-intro/

Powered by technology from Threat Stack, F5 Distributed Cloud AIP delivers comprehensive telemetry and high-efficacy intrusion detection for cloud-native workloads. Customers can now better address a larger threat surface with increased visibility and support in securing both modern applications and the infrastructure they run on.

35.
BIG-IP Advanced WAF | F5
https://www.f
.com/products/big-ip-services/advanced-waf/

Advanced WAF uses behavioral analytics, proactive bot defense, and application-layer encryption of sensitive data. It identifies and blocks attacks other WAFs miss.

36.
Ensure Secure Private Access with Zscaler ZPA
https://www.zscale
.com/products-and-solutions/zscaler-private-access/

Get secure and fast access to private apps and OT devices with Zscaler Private Access™️ (ZPA), the leading zero-trust network access solution.

37.
MDR Solutions & Services from Alert Logic
https://www.alertlogi
.com/managed-services/managed-detection-and-response/

Effectively manage your security posture with MDR solutions that run in all public cloud, private cloud, hybrid cloud, and on-prem environments.

38.
CloudGuard Cloud Network Security - Check Point Software
https://www.checkpoin
.com/cloudguard/cloud-network-security/

CloudGuard network security protects public, private, and hybrid-cloud deployments from advanced threats with the highest catch rate of malware and other attacks.

39.
Prisma SASE | Palo Alto Networks - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/sase/

Prisma SASE is the industry’s most complete SASE solution, converging network security, SD-WAN and Autonomous Digital Experience Management in the cloud.

40.
A SASE Leader - Netskope
https://www.netskop
.com/

Netskope, a global cybersecurity leader, is redefining cloud, data, and network security to help organizations apply zero trust principles to protect data.

41.
DDos Protection - Check Point Software
https://www.checkpoin
.com/quantum/ddos-protector/

Check Point DDoS Protector™Appliances block Denial of Service attacks within seconds with multi-layered protection.

42.
SonicWall Next-Gen Cloud App Security for Office 365, G Suite and other SaaS apps.
https://www.sonicwal
.com/products/cloud-security/cloud-app-security/

SonicWall Cloud App Security offers next-gen security for your users and data within cloud applications, including email, messaging, file sharing and file storage. For organizations adopting SaaS applications, SonicWall Cloud App Security delivers best-in-class security and a seamless user experience.

43.
Imperva Web Application Firewall (WAF) | App & API Protection
https://www.imperv
.com/products/web-application-firewall-waf/

Imperva's Web Application Firewall is the industry-leading solution to help defend your web application from external and internal threats.

44.
Branch Virtual Security Gateway - Check Point Software
https://www.checkpoin
.com/quantum/edge-branch-virtual-security-gateway/

Quantum Edge protects branch offices on-premise with top-rated Threat Prevention, that can be deployed in minutes, and be managed by a unified threat prevention and access platform.

45.
Edge Secure Web Gateway
https://www.broadco
.com/products/cybersecurity/network/web-protection/proxy-sg-and-advanced-secure-gateway/

High performance on-premises appliances that protect organizations across the web, social media, applications and mobile networks.

46.
FortiDeceptor: Deception-based Breach Protection Overview
https://www.fortine
.com/products/fortideceptor/

FortiDeceptor is based on deception-based technology that complements an organization’s existing breach protection strategy, designed to deceive, expose and eliminate attacks originating from either external or internal sources before any real damage occurs.

47.
WildFire - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/network-security/wildfire/

WildFire leverages a suite of cloud-based malware detection techniques and inline ML to identify and protect against unknown file-based threats.

48.
The Leading Zero Trust Segmentation Company | Illumio
https://www.illumi
.com/home/

Protect your network and secure your cloud with Illumio, the leading Zero Trust Segmentation platform. Stay safe with our advanced cloud security solutions.

49.
Network Security Products - Huawei Enterprise
https://e.huawe
.com/en/products/security/

With AI-based threat response, Software-Defined Networking (SDN)-based security defense, and intelligent security policy optimization, Huawei network security helps mitigate risks as customers go digital.

50.
Qualys Web Application Firewall | Qualys
https://www.qualy
.com/apps/web-app-firewall/

Discover Qualys Web Application Firewall, our web app firewall cloud service for scalable, simple, and powerful protection of web applications. Try it today!

51.
Fastly Next-Gen WAF | Fastly
https://www.fastl
.com/products/web-application-api-protection/

The Fastly Next-Gen WAF provides web app and API protection for your apps, APIs, and microservices, wherever they live, from a single unified solution.

52.
FortiClient Fabric Agent for Endpoint Security | Fortinet
https://www.fortine
.com/products/endpoint-security/forticlient/

FortiClient Fabric Agent integrates endpoints into the Security Fabric and provides endpoint telemetry, including user identity, protection status, risk scores, unpatched vulnerabilities, security events, and more.

53.
Netgate
https://www.netgat
.com/

Netgate is an open-source driven secure networking company that provides appliance and software-based firewall, VPN and routing solutions including pfSense

54.
Unified Communications and Collaborations as a Service
https://www.fortine
.com/products/business-phone-systems/fortivoice-fortifone/

FortiVoice Unified Communications and collaborations as service offer simplified management in both centralized and distributed environments helping organizations keep up with changing communication needs due to evolving infrastructure.

55.
Cloud WAF Service: Web Application Firewall Service - Radware
https://www.radwar
.com/products/cloud-waf-service/

Radware’s Cloud WAF Service is a web application firewall that provides continuous adaptive web application security protection and full coverage of OWASP Top 10 threats.

56.
Leader in Cybersecurity Protection & Software for the Modern Enterprises - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/

Implement Zero Trust, Secure your Network, Cloud workloads, Hybrid Workforce, Leverage Threat Intelligence & Security Consulting. Cybersecurity Services & Education for CISO’s, Head of Infrastructure, Network Security Engineers, Cloud Architects & SOC Managers

57.
Cisco Adaptive Security Virtual Appliance (ASAv) Data Sheet - Cisco
https://www.cisc
.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/security/adaptive-security-virtual-appliance-asav/adapt-security-virtual-appliance-ds.html/

This data sheet describes the benefits, specifications, and ordering information for the Cisco Secure Firewall ASA Virtual (formerly Adaptive Security Appliance virtual (ASAv)) Data Sheet.

58.
Tufin - Firewall Management & Network Security Policy Software
https://www.tufi
.com/

Tufin automates and orchestrates security policies across firewalls and hybrid cloud to meet the demands of the digital business. Learn more today.

59.
Cisco ASA 5500-X Series Firewalls - Cisco
https://www.cisc
.com/c/en_ca/products/security/asa-5500-series-next-generation-firewalls/index.html/

Cisco ASA 5500 Series Next-Generation Firewalls scale to meet a wide range of needs while providing highly secure, high-performance connectivity.

61.
Industrial IoT Security - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/network-security/industrial-ot-security/

Ensure uninterrupted operation of production facilities with a Zero Trust approach to industrial OT protection that lets you focus on continued modernization.

62.
URL Filtering - Check Point Software
https://www.checkpoin
.com/quantum/url-filtering/

URL filtering controls access to millions of web sites by category to protect users from malicious sites and enable safe use of the Internet.

63.
Singularity™ Cloud Security Platform
https://www.sentinelon
.com/cloud/

Discover the world of secure cloud computing with SentinelOne. Safeguard your cloud assets against evolving threats with cutting-edge solutions. Try it now!

64.
NetScaler: Application Delivery at Scale
https://www.netscale
.com/

See why the world’s largest companies prefer NetScaler for application delivery and security.

65.
Zscaler SASE: Architecture for a Cloud and Mobile
https://www.zscale
.com/products-and-solutions/secure-access-service-edge-sase/

Gartner’s SASE security model addresses the specific security concerns of organizations. Zscaler SASE platform is built for both performance and scalability

66.
Advanced URL Filtering - Palo Alto Networks
https://www.paloaltonetwork
.com/network-security/advanced-url-filtering/

Advanced URL Filtering provides best-in-class security, including the industry’s first real-time web protection engine and comprehensive phishing protection.

67.
NIOS 9 | Modernize Your Enterprise | Infoblox
https://www.infoblo
.com/products/nios/

Infoblox NIOS 9.0.1 delivers advanced encrypted security and privacy for enterprises (DoT/DoH), expands multi-cloud automation and templated API integrations, and strengthens cost-effective DDI reliability for hybrid networks of any size—today and into the future.

68.
Azure Firewall Manager | Microsoft Azure
https://azure.microsof
.com/en-us/products/firewall-manager/

Control network configurations and rules across multiple Azure Firewall instances. Simplify your network route management.

69.
Alteon Network Load Balancer | Products | Radware
https://www.radwar
.com/products/alteon/

Alteon is Radware’s next-generation application delivery controller (ADC) and the only network load balancer that guarantees application SLA.

70.
Zscaler Workload Communications
https://www.zscale
.com/products-and-solutions/workload-communications/

Enhance cloud security with Zscaler Workload Communications, safeguarding egress traffic for mission-critical workloads using the Zero Trust Exchange.

71.
Versa Networks: Explore Our Range of Products
https://versa-network
.com/products/

Explore Versa Networks' comprehensive range of cutting-edge networking products. Elevate your infrastructure with our best solutions for businesses!

72.
Sophos Central | Synchronize Your Network Security
https://www.sopho
.com/en-us/products/sophos-central/

Sophos Central: Industry-leading A.I. and Tightly Integrated Products Share Information to Automatically Respond to Incidents. Free Demo, No Installation Required.

73.
Cisco Next-Generation Intrusion Prevention System (NGIPS) - Cisco
https://www.cisc
.com/c/en_ca/products/security/ngips/index.html/

Cisco Secure IPS (NGIPS) provides contextual awareness, security intelligence, and advanced threat protection against attacks and malware.

74.
GFI KerioControl
https://www.gf
.com/products-and-solutions/network-security-solutions/keriocontrol/

Protect your network from viruses, malware and malicious activity with GFI KerioControl, the easy-to-administer yet powerful all-in-one security solution

75.
76.
SIEM Solutions & Tools | Get Best Enterprise SIEM Software | FortiSIEM
https://www.fortine
.com/products/siem/fortisiem/

FortiSIEM - Fortinet's SIEM solution offers advanced threat protection to organizations. Explore more about Security Information and Event Management (SIEM) Software

77.
Zscaler Zero Trust Exchange - AI-Powered Zero Trust Platform
https://www.zscale
.com/products-and-solutions/zero-trust-exchange-zte/

Embrace a new era of security with Zscaler Zero Trust Exchange - the leading AI platform designed to revolutionize network and firewall-centric architectures.

78.
Cloud Edge™ Unified Threat Management Device | Trend Micro (US)
https://www.trendmicr
.com/en_us/small-business/cloudedge-network-security.html/

Cloud Edge™ by Trend Micro provides multi-tenant management, complete control of your customers’ security, and unified threat management for managed services providers, managed in one central location.

79.
Security Service Edge SSE Solution - Skyhigh Security
https://www.skyhighsecurit
.com/products/security-service-edge.html/

Industry-leading cloud-native Security Service Edge (SSE) solution enables your workforce and protects your data across web, cloud, email, & private apps.

80.
AIONCLOUD | Cloud-Based Platform AIONCLOUD
https://www.aionclou
.com/

AIONCLOUD is MONITORAPP’s Cloud-Based Platform brand, offering various security services at a level equivalent to traditional security solutions, but in…

81.
Forward Networks | Best-in-Class Network Digital Twin Software
https://www.forwardnetwork
.com/

Forward Networks' flagship software, Forward Enterprise, delivers the best digital twin technology to the world's largest networks. Multi-vendor fully-scalable

82.
Cybersecurity as a Service Delivered | Sophos
https://www.sopho
.com/

From Endpoint, Cloud, and Network Protection to Fully Managed Cybersecurity Services, We Have You Covered. Sophos Delivers Better Security Outcomes.

83.
Reblaze - Cloud Native Web Application Firewall & API Protection
https://www.reblaz
.com/

Reblaze is a cloud-based platform that provides a comprehensive, dynamic, machine-intelligent security and control solution for web platforms.

84.
VNS3 - Cohesive Networks
https://cohesiv
.net/vns3/

VNS3 is the best all-in-one networking device delivering connectivity, security and flexibility at a fraction of the cost.

86.
Reimagined Partner Program, Cybersecurity Solutions - SonicWall
https://www.sonicwal
.com/

A leader in cybersecurity and network solutions for over 30 years. Featuring an enhanced and reimagined partner program.

87.
Cloud-Native, Advanced Email Security for Enterprises | Fortra Email Security
https://emailsecurity.fortr
.com/products/cloud-email-protection/

Cloud Email Protection, the integrated cloud email security solution from Fortra, stops advanced threats that bypass security defenses and make it into inboxes.

88.
Cloud Gateway | Flexible Networking and Security Solutions
https://www.cloudgateway.c
.uk/

Cloud Gateway offers network and security services for the public and private sectors, powered by the UK's first fully managed SASE platform.

89.
F5 Distributed Cloud Bot Defense | F5
https://www.f
.com/products/distributed-cloud-services/bot-defense/

Protect your website, mobile apps, and APIs from malicious bots with F5 Distributed Cloud Bot Defense.

90.
The CrowdStrike Falcon® platform
https://www.crowdstrik
.com/platform/

Cybersecurity’s AI-native platform for the XDR era: Stop breaches, reduce complexity, and lower total cost with a single platform, console, and agent.

91.
Email Security Solution | FortiMail
https://www.fortine
.com/products/email-security/

Fortinet's Email Security Solutions provides protection for your critical business information. Learn how to send Secure Email Gateways (SEG) with FortiMail.

92.
F5 | Multi-Cloud Security and Application Delivery
https://www.f
.com/

F5 application services ensure that applications are always secure and perform the way they should—in any environment and on any device.

93.
Oracle SD-WAN Edge - Home
https://docs.oracl
.com/en/industries/communications/sd-wan-edge/index.html/

Oracle SD-WAN Edge solutions provide key network edge services critical to branch office simplification and simplified WAN management, including SD-WAN, routing, firewall, and WAN optimization, and offer flexible deployment options at the physical edge, the virtual edge, or in the cloud. Oracle SD-WAN enables enterprises to transform their traditional WAN, augmenting or replacing MPLS with high-bandwidth, inexpensive internet connections, and delivering a network that is easy to deploy and manage, but without requiring forklift upgrades. Thanks to patented technology that does continuous unidirectional measurement of all paths and offers subsecond response to not just link failures but also congestion-based brownouts, Oracle failsafe SD-WAN delivers better-than-MPLS high availability and exceptional QoE for applications site-to-site and site-to-cloud.

94.
Multicloud Networking for Cloud Applications | Aviatrix
https://aviatri
.com/

Aviatrix secure cloud networking software is purpose-built for your business, delivering enterprise-grade networking with security, agility, and cost-optimization in mind.

95.
Advanced Website Protection for Unmatched Cyber Defense
https://www.comod
.com/

Safeguard your devices with Comodo's advanced endpoint protection and protect your websites from malware and cyber threats. Secure your site now!

98.
HPE Aruba Networking EdgeConnect SD-WAN | HPE
https://www.arubanetwork
.com/products/sd-wan/edgeconnect/

Power branch, WAN and security with a secure SD-WAN as the foundational component for architecting a secure access service edge (SASE).

99.
WatchGuard | Network, Wi-Fi, Identity, and Endpoint Security Solutions
https://www.watchguar
.com/

Award-winning solutions that are easy to deploy and manage, making enterprise-grade security accessible to any organization regardless of size or expertise.